Overkill brake setup, possible?

[Neejay]

Well, after I made a GT-R owner shit his pants (wasn't that serious, he just heard tires screeching and tire smoke; didn't come close to him at all, just locked the brakes waaaay back), I realized that I need to overhaul my brakes some more.

Right now I have Q45 Fronts, stock s13 rears, SS lines all around. I'm going to upgrade the rear, but I was looking at an adapter for cobra 13" rotors up front + 15/16" or 1" BMC. RB25, 277whp/277tq (will be higher eventually)

When are brakes considered an overkill? I mean, is there a such thing when it comes to safety?

[KA720]

maybe look into some better tires before you decide to ditch those Q45 brakes

[Neejay]

maybe look into some better tires before you decide to ditch those Q45 brakes
I'm not ditching the Q45 brakes. Q45 setup is caliper + rotor. I'm simply talking about getting larger rotors.

EDIT: And the problem with the tires: I'm either getting wheels and/or going 5-lug. No point in getting performance tires just yet.

[cpa s13]

If you truly want "overkill" brakes this is what you need

http://www.conceptzperformance.com/cart/description.php?II=1983&Car_Type=300&UID=2010060910413174.244.30.105

[~The_Duke~]

Those arent overkill at all man.

http://240atlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52371

Get you some of these, then put the biggest thing you can find on the rear. Then you will be alil closer to overkill. Those are basically the same design caliper that comes stock on STis, Evos, and track 350z's.

SS lines and good rotors are a start, but to really the 2 most important things in your brake system are your brake fluid and the brake pads. I recommend super blue DOT 4 fluid or motul which is either DOT 4 or 5 I dont remember.

For streetish pads that can handle alil bit of track use I recommend Hawk HP+ and the EBC yellow stuff.

If you are looking for some hardcore only track pads carbotech all the way.

I run Hawk HP+ in the front and Hawk HPS in the rear with super blue, SS lines, and brembo blank rotors for the moment. They work great for DD'ing if you dont mind the Hawk HP+ squeaking like mad when slowly stopping at low speeds, and they can handle me driving in the mountains at a VERY good pace.

Getting a larger rotor without upgrading the size of caliper\pad isnt going to do you a whole lot because of how disc brakes work. Unless you are increasing the contact patch between the rotor and brake pad, and\or increasing the amount of clamping power that is available to the caliper the only thing that bigger rotor is going to do is help with brake cooling due to the larger surface area getting air pushed over it.

[Agencymotorsports]

If you want an upgraded go with the Evo brembos

[s14.5gonewide]

nuff said.
http://www.mazworx.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2765

caddy cts vspec bbk for the s13/s14

[J Squared]

I dont think anyone would say a 4-piston Brembo setup with 305mm rotors would beat out the 6-piston AP kit with 2-piece 360mm rotors. Do the math, there is a reason one costs $700 and the other costs $3700.

Having said that, you probably don't need either one. Z32 brakes all around and a Z master would be more than enough for DDing a 300hp 240. Get good fluid, pads, and lines and you'll be in business.

[babowc]

Well, brakes are secondary to tires, so I would recommend getting some good tires then upgrading your brakes/rotors.

Are there adapters for Q45 brakes?
If you're gonna do that, may as well just go with Z32 as they've twice the pots and more easily upgraded.

Also, upgrading rotors only help dissipate heat, not much for braking power itself.
If you want to keep Q45, only other upgrade I see that you could do is flushing your brake fluid and getting ATE Superblue or some type of performance fluid in there along with more aggressive pads.

However if you don't upgrade your tires, you'll still be skidding regardless of how good of a brake system you have.

[afwfjustin]

[QUOTE=~The_Duke~;

Getting a larger rotor without upgrading the size of caliper\pad isnt going to do you a whole lot because of how disc brakes work. Unless you are increasing the contact patch between the rotor and brake pad, and\or increasing the amount of clamping power that is available to the caliper the only thing that bigger rotor is going to do is help with brake cooling due to the larger surface area getting air pushed over it.[/QUOTE]

I think you might be underestimating how important the larger rotor plays though, a you mentioned- it helps in cooling since it's essentially a bigger heat sync with more surface area to get cooled and expel heat.

[Neejay]

If you truly want "overkill" brakes this is what you need

http://www.conceptzperformance.com/cart/description.php?II=1983&Car_Type=300&UID=2010060910413174.244.30.105
lol No thanks.


Those arent overkill at all man.

http://240atlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52371

Get you some of these, then put the biggest thing you can find on the rear. Then you will be alil closer to overkill. Those are basically the same design caliper that comes stock on STis, Evos, and track 350z's.

SS lines and good rotors are a start, but to really the 2 most important things in your brake system are your brake fluid and the brake pads. I recommend super blue DOT 4 fluid or motul which is either DOT 4 or 5 I dont remember.

For streetish pads that can handle alil bit of track use I recommend Hawk HP+ and the EBC yellow stuff.

If you are looking for some hardcore only track pads carbotech all the way.

I run Hawk HP+ in the front and Hawk HPS in the rear with super blue, SS lines, and brembo blank rotors for the moment. They work great for DD'ing if you dont mind the Hawk HP+ squeaking like mad when slowly stopping at low speeds, and they can handle me driving in the mountains at a VERY good pace.

Getting a larger rotor without upgrading the size of caliper\pad isnt going to do you a whole lot because of how disc brakes work. Unless you are increasing the contact patch between the rotor and brake pad, and\or increasing the amount of clamping power that is available to the caliper the only thing that bigger rotor is going to do is help with brake cooling due to the larger surface area getting air pushed over it.
I'm using Valvoline fluid (was recommended via research). I'm kinda limited on the front pads, due to them being Q45 BUT at least they are Hawk HPS.


If you want an upgraded go with the Evo brembos
eh...I'm not that hardcore. lol This isn't my daily driver...forgot to mention that to you guys.


nuff said.
http://www.mazworx.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2765

caddy cts vspec bbk for the s13/s14
DAMN! I forgot about those, but no thanks. haha


I dont think anyone would say a 4-piston Brembo setup with 305mm rotors would beat out the 6-piston AP kit with 2-piece 360mm rotors. Do the math, there is a reason one costs $700 and the other costs $3700.

Having said that, you probably don't need either one. Z32 brakes all around and a Z master would be more than enough for DDing a 300hp 240. Get good fluid, pads, and lines and you'll be in business.
Q45/Z32 all around is what I'm thinking as well...luckily Q45 are the same as Z32 (front wise; can't remember which mm though...). So I'd need rear Z32, ATE super blue, and change my pads all around.


Well, brakes are secondary to tires, so I would recommend getting some good tires then upgrading your brakes/rotors.

Are there adapters for Q45 brakes?
If you're gonna do that, may as well just go with Z32 as they've twice the pots and more easily upgraded.

Also, upgrading rotors only help dissipate heat, not much for braking power itself.
If you want to keep Q45, only other upgrade I see that you could do is flushing your brake fluid and getting ATE Superblue or some type of performance fluid in there along with more aggressive pads.

However if you don't upgrade your tires, you'll still be skidding regardless of how good of a brake system you have.
Q45's are the same up front, just don't have the fancy "Nissan" lettering. :( But yeah, ATE + new pads should definitely help. Tires for me are #2, until I get/decide on which wheels/setup I'm going with.

[Casey]

its called torque. its easier to stop a bicycle wheel by grabbing the outside than it is the spokes.

same concept.

---------- Post added at 02:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

it sounds like you just need tires man

[J Squared]

Q45 fronts are not the same as Z fronts. You have two extra pistons, larger body for cooling, bigger pads, and the pads drop in from the top in Z brakes which is a huge plus (pad changes in like 10 minutes with only a screw driver).

[babowc]

its called torque. its easier to stop a bicycle wheel by grabbing the outside than it is the spokes.

same concept.

---------- Post added at 02:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

it sounds like you just need tires man

I have to disagree..
I really don't think that would apply here.

the entire pad is clamping down, not just the end of it.

Bigger rotor isn't used for braking power, just for heat dissipation.. which would ultimately help, but the diameter of the rotor itself wont help a car stop faster.

[KA720]

All I'm saying is I think you will be very pleased with the Q45 setup along with good brake pads and some good tires.

[Neejay]

its called torque. its easier to stop a bicycle wheel by grabbing the outside than it is the spokes.

same concept.

---------- Post added at 02:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

it sounds like you just need tires man
they're coming...eventually.


Q45 fronts are not the same as Z fronts. You have two extra pistons, larger body for cooling, bigger pads, and the pads drop in from the top in Z brakes which is a huge plus (pad changes in like 10 minutes with only a screw driver).
http://www.ka24development.com/brake_upgrades.html 2mm difference (except the 2 extra pistons), didn't know the pads were bigger though. ugh, people charge an arm and a leg for Z32 calipers. I'll stick with what I have and just worry about the pads, rears, and BMC.

EDIT: Or maybe not...I might switch to Z32 all around, just hate price gouging.

[Casey]

I have to disagree..
I really don't think that would apply here.

the entire pad is clamping down, not just the end of it.

Bigger rotor isn't used for braking power, just for heat dissipation.. which would ultimately help, but the diameter of the rotor itself wont help a car stop faster.

whatever you say.

go flip a bike over and spin it. see which position is easier to stop the tire.

furthest out, or closest in.

it uses less clamping force to stop the tire furthest out.

more clamping force to stop the tire further in, however, it should create similar heat. since you are still stopping the same amount of weight. so in addition, the larger rotor will help dissipate heat.

why do you honestly think race brakes are a larger diameter? its not because of the clamping force. its a little thing called torque

http://id.mind.net/~zona/mstm/physics/mechanics/forces/torque/torque2.gif

---------- Post added at 03:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 PM ----------


http://www.ka24development.com/brake_upgrades.html 2mm difference (except the 2 extra pistons), unless I'm missing something?? ugh, people charge an arm and a leg for Z32 calipers. I'll stick with what I have and just worry about the pads, rears, and BMC.

lol just buy lifetime warrenty re-manufactured calipers from the parts store. and turn the cores in later at a different store.

shop around.

z32 calipers are the whole deal. you dont have to buy the bracket because there isnt one. it should come with everything you need aside from brake pads, rotors, and brake hardware. and be picky when you get them. get the 1991-1996 z32 n/a calipers left and right. then order the conversion lines online. make sure they're both aluminum and both painted the same color.

[s14.5gonewide]

i think for your whp ur stock brakes with good lines and pads is sufficient.
you could spend money on maintance items and good tires(not streched either) you can have 11inch wide rims but if ur contact patch is onyl 5 inches no matter what brakes you have it will be pointless.

get the lightest rims possibly less rotating mass will allow you to stop quicker. heavy objects in motion tend to stay or want to stay in motion.

[KA24DETS14]

I think for the money you can't beat the Z brake set up. I have 30mm Aluminum calipers, stock pads and the 17/16 BMC. The pedal is firm and the car stops on a dime. I want to upgrade to EBC pads and install rear Z32 brakes.

[slowwrx]

I have to disagree..
I really don't think that would apply here.

the entire pad is clamping down, not just the end of it.

Bigger rotor isn't used for braking power, just for heat dissipation.. which would ultimately help, but the diameter of the rotor itself wont help a car stop faster.

There is so much misinformation in this thread that its amazing. Torque or Brake Torque always applies. The size of the rotor directly effects how much torque can be applied to the rotor. The bigger the rotor the more heat dissipation which is all brakes do really is create friction (heat)....its simple energy transfer.

But Moving the rotor surface further out from the hub gives the rotor more surface and allows the rotor\caliper to apply more torque to the hub.

[jdm240z]

I have R32 alluminums front and rear($200 on craigslist) 1" 1996 TT Z32 BMC. ($160 at pepboys) Z33 touring rotors with caliper extension brackets($80 on here) NA Z32 rear rotors(cheap) S13 automatic dual diaphram brake booster(free) Circuit sports lines($140 from Enjuku) Hawks and motul. That's all you'll ever need. At least on a slow ass 240. Oh and no ebrake. Need to buy a line lock or get ripped off on NA Z32 ebrake parts.:

[skanknastys13]

i'm probably waayyy wrong anyway, but if you're screeching tires, you don't need bigger more badass brakes, all they're going to do is lock up faster. As stated, you need better tires, and a more efficient brake foot ;)

[I RON DON KEY]

what's your story with the GTR?

[Neejay]

There is so much misinformation in this thread that its amazing. Torque or Brake Torque always applies. The size of the rotor directly effects how much torque can be applied to the rotor. The bigger the rotor the more heat dissipation which is all brakes do really is create friction (heat)....its simple energy transfer.

But Moving the rotor surface further out from the hub gives the rotor more surface and allows the rotor\caliper to apply more torque to the hub.
ah, thanks. This further backs up the rear Z31 bracket + 2003 Altima rear rotor setup.


I have R32 alluminums front and rear($200 on craigslist) 1" 1996 TT Z32 BMC. ($160 at pepboys) Z33 touring rotors with caliper extension brackets($80 on here) NA Z32 rear rotors(cheap) S13 automatic dual diaphram brake booster(free) Circuit sports lines($140 from Enjuku) Hawks and motul. That's all you'll ever need. At least on a slow ass 240. Oh and no ebrake. Need to buy a line lock or get ripped off on NA Z32 ebrake parts.:
damn, baller. lol I can't afford all of that right now.


i'm probably waayyy wrong anyway, but if you're screeching tires, you don't need bigger more badass brakes, all they're going to do is lock up faster. As stated, you need better tires, and a more efficient brake foot ;)
Yeah, like I said, I plan on getting better rubber, but not until I decide on what wheels I'll be upgrading to.

---------- Post added at 10:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 PM ----------


what's your story with the GTR?
Basically, cocky douche guy driving, he started trying to pull away from me (he intentionally slowed down and took off when he saw I was kinda staying up with him; I like the car, was just rare to see it in this area, I wasn't trying to get a race or anything); I know the area, so I started slowing down waaaay early but ended up locking my brakes; screeching + tire smoke + me behind GT-R = GT-R owner shitting bricks and yelling out the window. I was still like 4 car lengths back and even was able to coast to a stop. But I can imagine spending $80k on a car and hearing screeching and seeing tire smoke in your rearview mirror. It was the first time I'd pushed my brakes to that extreme (which is why I started slowing down so far back behind him).

[slowwrx]

and technically if you locked up the brakes and almost hit him then the brakes work fine the problem is your driving....learn to modulate.

[PLAY]

Z32 z32 z32 z32

[J Squared]

ah, thanks. This further backs up the rear Z31 bracket + 2003 Altima rear rotor setup.




Thats interesting, ive never heard that setup. Gotta love cars sometimes haha

[Neejay]

and technically if you locked up the brakes and almost hit him then the brakes work fine the problem is your driving....learn to modulate.
Didn't almost hit him lol but I agree. I want to tighten up my suspension more and autox/learn to grip drive. Like I said, that was the first time I'd even pushed my brake setup to that extreme. Thanks man.


Z32 z32 z32 z32
lol


Thats interesting, ive never heard that setup. Gotta love cars sometimes haha
relatively new-ish:
http://zilvia.net/f/archive-faqs/291877-diy-z31-2003-altima-rear-rotor-upgrade-s14-calipers.html

[KA24DETS14]

http://zilvia.net/f/archive-faqs/291877-diy-z31-2003-altima-rear-rotor-upgrade-s14-calipers.html[/URL]

Sweet!! Headed to pull a part!!

[Neejay]

Sweet!! Headed to pull a part!!
awww, come on, don't take them all! :(

[J Squared]

Seems pretty sweet but that dude is a tool haha. That's cool it was perfect for what he wanted, but he seems a lot like some other people I know that think whatever they have is 100% the best choice. It's definitely nice and cheap though, thats for sure.

[davidk]

i say trash your whole setup,,,,get a complete 90+ 300zx brake setup
check out the forums on the swap so you know what you are doing and
im sure you will love your car all over again,,,braking power increased by 70% over stock
i sometimes try to throw myself through my own windshield
oh yeah the bias on the 300zx brakes on a 240sx is almost perfect,(no front end nose dives) when you hit the brakes.

[FlatWoodsMonster]

endless 12pot all there is to do

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_aiNUPxQeS1E/RhylKhCBPyI/AAAAAAAAA2A/2APgRgaEbXc/s400/Endless+12+piston.jpg