Killswitch

[PLAY]

I dropped my car off at Killswitch a month or so ago and I told Tyler I wanted a few things done. I had torn up my harness at Kiss Kiss and my car needed a new one, I wanted the EGR removed, A/C removed, and I needed Tyler to figure out what what was wrong with my engine, just kind of look over everything and let me know what was going on.

Tyler gave me an itemized list of the work that was to be done the day I dropped the car off, but told me that the prices weren't right on the estimate.(everything on the list was marked "$80") I was under the impression that I would get pricing for the work before he actually did everything. i.e. call me and let me know how much the parts, etc. were going to cost before actually performing the maintenance.

I called Tyler a few weeks after I had dropped it off and let him know that I needed my car back to get it re-registered and he said he was working on it, etc.

I still haven't gotten direct pricing on anything at this point.

I called Tyler about a week after that to get the actual pricing for everything and he told me that the car was done and running, etc.

This was confusing to me since I only wanted him to look over the car and diagnose the issues after removing the egr, a/c, and instaling the harness.

What he did was find the problems and then he fixed them (valve cover gasket, spark plugs, I can't really remember everything.)

But the total came out to $1200.

I got the invoice from him, but I think I deleted the e-mail.

I feel blind-sided, trapped, etc. I never got actual prices for all of the work until after he had already done it.

I've been to Killswitch maybe 3 or 4 times without any issues until now.

[Buccaneer_9]

Let's hear Tyler's side before we start chiming in...

[zebrafantastic]

Let's hear Tyler's side before we start chiming in...

Agreed. I rescind my previous statement.

[down_shift]

I would be much more sympathtic to your situation if you hadn't waited for three weeks to call in the first place and then another week to follow up. You should have calling for a real quote in that first week.

[J Squared]

Did you ask him about it at install day?

[PLAY]

we talked about it that week of install day. it pretty much came down to that he had already done the labor so i had to pay.

he said he would negotiate that i make payments. he has been paid a little more than half.

[J Squared]

Cool cool, I thought I remember you talking about it then.

[zebrafantastic]

I would be much more sympathtic to your situation if you hadn't waited for three weeks to call in the first place and then another week to follow up. You should have calling for a real quote in that first week.

IMO it's the shopowner's responsibility to get in touch with the customer. After all it is the desire of the shop (it should be, i think) to make their customers happy so that they will be provided with business return and possible recommendations to other customers. However, we're still waiting what Tyler has to say about this. Can't really have an unbiased opinion with only one side of the story.

[FlatWoodsMonster]

if youve been there 3 or 4 time you didnt have to make this thread you just could have worked something out.

[hellfire]

What are you possibly talking about!?

I gave you an estimate, I SPECIFICALLY told you that the prices were not exact. I even had $0 for prices of some items you wanted to purchase, because I told you that I didn't have time to go through and get prices for you we were already running late, like the:

Front 15mm Bolt On Spacers 0.00
Valve Cover Gasket 0.00
New Engine Room Harness 0.00
Nismo Thermostat 0.00

The prices for labor, were strictly one hour of labor marked on the invoice. I told you, that was not the price, and you said no problem. You didn't say that money was an issue. You also didn't think that parts were really free, did you?

The reasoning for the quick invoice, is I waited nearly 2 hours after we closed for your car to be dropped off, your welcome btw.

After the car was finished, I had talked to your mom. I also had talked to you. You know the prices, and you know the total. So whats with this "I've not gotten a full price list even as of now" BS?!

Your mom has even came to make payments on the car for you. And I felt sympethitic, as I think you tricked your mom into having the work done, becuase she said she needed time to pay. I let you pay off the car over however long you needed, charging no storage.

If you really didn't know the prices, you should have called. Its a phone call away. And you sent me a PM, which I responded to, telling you that your mom has the signed invoice, and that she made a payment.

I also got a call from your mom saying not to let you take the car. So maybe there is some behind the scenes action that you need to go take a look at. And stop acting like a 5 year old.

Tyler

---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

And also, you called me and said that the car needed to be done asap, before you birthday. I told you what had been done, (The removal of AC, the EGR, and some other minor things) And told you what still needed to be done. I dropped everything and finished your car asap, expecting you to actually want to pick it up when it was done.

But go figure, now 3+ weeks later, the car is still sitting here.

Tyler

---------- Post added at 05:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:00 PM ----------

Sorry to keep adding, but as I read more, I'm getting more frustrated.

You didn't tell me to only "Diagnose" the issues. You said you needed the car to run, with no issues. I told you the problems I found, and told you I can fix them. You authorized that over the phone.

Now if I have to start making people come down here to sign an invoice declaring the extra work that we are doing based on this, I will.

Tyler

---------- Post added at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 PM ----------

Last one, haha.

Plus, I have talked to you NUMEROUS TIMES since your car was done, you also came to install day, and ANOTHER time just to install some stickers and steering wheel on your car. You have had ample chances to let me know if something was not alright with you. But you have not. You come on here and try and ruin my reputation for what reason? I've not wronged you once, yet here you are.

Tyler

[Banzai]

Tyler, I was there when we dropped the car off and I remember you telling Brent the prices were not correct as of then. Everything you said is true, Brent told me you quoted him less than half of the price you charged him, but he had you do more work, so that equals more money for labor/parts.

I just think both of you should have been more in contact, Brent is just mad because he probably has to pay himself this time not his mom. Same thing happened to me when I brought my car to you, it did end up being more than said price, but more work needed to be done so you could see how my car ran after the inter cooler piping and other stuff was done. I was ok with it. When I came to pick up my car I was a little shocked and I admit I was kind of angry, but I didnt bitch about it on here and I came back later after I had WORKED and sold parts to pay you so I could get my car back.. You did post the truth though.

[hellfire]

^^ If there is any issue with me not being in enough contact about prices, I will take that criticism. I will correct that issue on my behalf.

Also, anyone with their cars here, if more works needs to be done, can reach me during business hours. I am always here, and I even answer the phones if I am here late, just incase. You can get an up to date price anytime.

You can call me anytime, and if I shocked you, I apologize as well. I try to keep everyone up to date, but I run around with my head cut off. This issue will be fixed.

Tyler

[PLAY]

I have gotten the invoice, you never quoted me actual prices for the parts though. You misread my post.

I NEVER GOT ACTUAL REAL CONCRETE PRICING UNTIL THE CAR WAS ALREADY DONE.

Thats it. You admitted that to me and my mother on the phone.

It doesn't seem fair to me that I was never told the price of the harness, EGR block off plate, etc. UNTIL the car had already been worked on.

Thats how it has always been. You get a price for parts, then decide whether or not to get the work done, not the other way around.

Saying I tricked my mom into fixing my car isn't fair at all and hardly professional. She was the person who suggested I bring the car to you since I couldn't get the car to work.

---------- Post added at 08:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 PM ----------

Tyler, my OP is written as a timeline. When it says, "I still haven't gotten direct pricing at this point," its in reference to that moment in time, not the present.

It clearly states at the end of my post that the final price was $1200.

You just misread my post.

[PLAY]

Yes, my mom paid to get my car fixed.

Thats hilarious.

[PLAY]

What are you possibly talking about!?

I gave you an estimate, I SPECIFICALLY told you that the prices were not exact. I even had $0 for prices of some items you wanted to purchase, because I told you that I didn't have time to go through and get prices for you we were already running late, like the:

Front 15mm Bolt On Spacers 0.00
Valve Cover Gasket 0.00
New Engine Room Harness 0.00
Nismo Thermostat 0.00

The prices for labor, were strictly one hour of labor marked on the invoice. I told you, that was not the price, and you said no problem. You didn't say that money was an issue. You also didn't think that parts were really free, did you?

Spacers and thermostat, I told you not do. Those are irrelevant at this point.

The reasoning for the quick invoice, is I waited nearly 2 hours after we closed for your car to be dropped off, your welcome btw.

You weren't at the shop when I got there. You were coming back from Autozone.

After the car was finished, I had talked to your mom. I also had talked to you. You know the prices, and you know the total. So whats with this "I've not gotten a full price list even as of now" BS?!

You misread the OP.

Your mom has even came to make payments on the car for you. And I felt sympethitic, as I think you tricked your mom into having the work done, becuase she said she needed time to pay. I let you pay off the car over however long you needed, charging no storage.

If you really didn't know the prices, you should have called. Its a phone call away. And you sent me a PM, which I responded to, telling you that your mom has the signed invoice, and that she made a payment.

I also got a call from your mom saying not to let you take the car. So maybe there is some behind the scenes action that you need to go take a look at. And stop acting like a 5 year old.

She didn't want me to drive the car until it had emissions again seeing as how the tags are expired and she didn't want me to get a ticket.

Tyler

---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

And also, you called me and said that the car needed to be done asap, before you birthday. I told you what had been done, (The removal of AC, the EGR, and some other minor things) And told you what still needed to be done. I dropped everything and finished your car asap, expecting you to actually want to pick it up when it was done.

But go figure, now 3+ weeks later, the car is still sitting here.

You're charging me a price I had no idea what it was going to be. How can I be prepared for that?!

Tyler

---------- Post added at 05:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:00 PM ----------

Sorry to keep adding, but as I read more, I'm getting more frustrated.

You didn't tell me to only "Diagnose" the issues. You said you needed the car to run, with no issues. I told you the problems I found, and told you I can fix them. You authorized that over the phone.

On the invoice I had that was printed out it specifically says "LOOK over engine bay for issues" It says LOOK Tyler, LOOOOOOOOK LOOOOOK.

Now if I have to start making people come down here to sign an invoice declaring the extra work that we are doing based on this, I will.

Tyler

---------- Post added at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 PM ----------

Last one, haha.

Plus, I have talked to you NUMEROUS TIMES since your car was done, you also came to install day, and ANOTHER time just to install some stickers and steering wheel on your car. You have had ample chances to let me know if something was not alright with you. But you have not. You come on here and try and ruin my reputation for what reason? I've not wronged you once, yet here you are.

We had already spoken about the issue before Install Day. There is no "new" information here. I'm not out to get you or ruin your "perfect" reputation as a shop owner. IMO when you do work on someone's car and not tell them how much its going to cost until after the work is done, that IS WRONG. Wrong enough for me to have to warm people about it.

Tyler

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[PLAY]

The reason my car HAS to work is that I need to pick my brother up from school everyday since my mom works in Vinnings and she has no other way to get him home since she works so far away.

He goes to school in Rockdale, I live in Snellville.

[PLAY]

Sounds like there are some people on here that can't handle the every day stress of owning an automobile , maybe the ones that can't need to go out to the shed and dust off that old huffy with the banana seat and tassles and start pedaling again because youre not ready for all that comes with a car........

This is just a dumb post.

People take their car to shops to get work done all the time. That doesn't mean they "can't handle the stress of owning an automobile"

[PLAY]

only thing my parents give me is food and a roof ( even though i pay monthly rent.)
all car stuff, health, car insurance, car repairs and mods, mobbies, gas ETC ETC ETC is on my plate. people over here rely on there parents too much. im 19 btw.

ANYWAY.
my exp. with tyler and carina have been plesent, and i wouldnt mind letting them work on my car if needed based on past experience. these threads always make me mad because im in the same situation tyler is in almost every week now. i call people and say "yo shits broke, i need $xx to fix it, and i can have it done on XX day" they say " oh shit thats alot of money, but go ahead" then i fill out the form, and if i need any extra i call them back even if its like $10.00.
but people still complain when they pick it up!

what needed to happen was brent should have specified more often about just the diagnosis (because i know tyler wouldnt have done work without an OK) and tyer should have contacted brent beforhand with a as close as possible estimate and got it OK'd/

/rant. had to vent on something my keyboard is lonely.

Tyler did not give me a correct estimate. He only sent me the final price. I didn't know how much any of the parts costed until he had already done the work. Th harness came out to $200. I didn't know that until after he had already done it. And so on with everything else. That is what bothers me. That and fixing the issues before letting me know the actual prices.

[Hammerhead-i Eaglethrust]

Wow, I sometimes forget we're not all adults here... To go on and on about this how his mom paid for everything seems kind of petty.

Sounds to me like both sides really blew it here.

On Brent's end, why on earth would you allow work to be done on your car without knowing how much it was going to cost? Sounds to me like you weren't on top of your game on this one. In the real world, when you actually have to pay your own bills and no one is going to be there to pick up the slack (as it has almost always been for me), you will probably care enough to ask these questions and put your foot down until they are answered. As a customer in any shop, it's your responsibility to see that things are done on your terms. You lay down the law of what you want up front, and you keep up with things to make sure they go to plan. If the shop owner has a problem with the terms of what keeps you comfortable, then you need to find a different shop.

As far as Tyler goes, lets be clear, I haven't had much work done by him, but he's always been nice to me, given me super deals on parts, and given me advice on things when I needed it, so I consider him a friend and have nothing but good things to say about him or Carina, or Decker in the past when he worked there. But, I will say that I would never take my car to a shop that I thought might double or triple my bill without my knowledge before all is said and done. It's just not good practice, you should never be 'shocked' when you come pick up your car. It sucks to know your car might need extra work, but its best to know beforehand. I mean what if someone can't afford to pay the whole amount when they thought it was going to be significantly lower? That's not a fun corner to be backed into, and if its your only car you're screwed. Doesn't exactly help the reputation either. I hope we don't hear about any more of these incidents from Killswitch, and if I know Tyler, I'd be willing to bet he fixes that problem immediately.

I think there was a miscommunication here on both sides from what I can see. Yall just need to forget about the he-said-she-said bullshit, and if the work done ='s the amount charged, then pay it and be done. If not, then address that issue.

[hellfire]

sammy wouldve been a better choice and its closer...yea its more money but its really professional and quick. Sammy does wiring for a habit

We are just as professional, and quick. I had his car done promtly after he stated that he needed it done at a certain date. Before that I had told him I wouldn't be able to get to it right away.

I've never had a problem with Brent what so ever. I didn't see this thread coming at all, which to me is a concern.

I talked to him over the phone, and I also talked to his mom several times. We had made an agreement based on the situation, and I apologized if there was a wrong doing on our side.

Brent, I talked to you over the phone, and told you that the A/C and EGR removal was partly done already, and you said ok no problem go ahead and do that, then the wiring harness.

I don't really see why all of this mess always get brought on here. It seems like just to stir up shit. I talked to you already,

[hellfire]

sammy wouldve been a better choice and its closer...yea its more money but its really professional and quick. Sammy does wiring for a habit

We are just as professional, and quick. I had his car done promtly after he stated that he needed it done at a certain date. Before that I had told him I wouldn't be able to get to it right away.

I've never had a problem with Brent what so ever. I didn't see this thread coming at all, which to me is a concern.

I talked to him over the phone, and I also talked to his mom several times. We had made an agreement based on the situation, and I apologized if there was a wrong doing on our side.

Brent, I talked to you over the phone, and told you that the A/C and EGR removal was partly done already, and you said ok no problem go ahead and do that, then the wiring harness.

I don't really see why all of this mess always get brought on here. It seems like just to stir up shit. I talked to you already, and if you had an issue, all you had to do was talk to me again.

My goal is to make you satisfied. You even came down, and I went over everything that was done. And plus, you can't really think that your invoice was going to be $580 for all those things done, can you? Even with the $0's for parts, and only one hour of labor for everything? It makes no sense, and I explained that to you beforehand, and after, and you didn't seem to have a problem.

Maybe I just thought you understood, and you didn't, but those prices were clearly not the right ones, and you didn't make it seem like money was an issue about the parts or labor. I didn't know you were trying to keep a certain budget, that would be a good thing to let me know.

Again, I'm sorry for any problem, and I won't let this happen again, as you are the second person to say this. But at the same time, verbal agreements were made with both, that I can't account for on paper which makes it seem like I was wrong.

Tyler

[PLAY]

We are just as professional, and quick. I had his car done promtly after he stated that he needed it done at a certain date. Before that I had told him I wouldn't be able to get to it right away.

I've never had a problem with Brent what so ever. I didn't see this thread coming at all, which to me is a concern.

I talked to him over the phone, and I also talked to his mom several times. We had made an agreement based on the situation, and I apologized if there was a wrong doing on our side.

Brent, I talked to you over the phone, and told you that the A/C and EGR removal was partly done already, and you said ok no problem go ahead and do that, then the wiring harness.

I don't really see why all of this mess always get brought on here. It seems like just to stir up shit. I talked to you already,


I'm pretty sure I have been clear about the purpose of this thread:

Did not receive actual pricing until the work was already finished.

I didn't expect the car to be done because I still hadn't gotten direct pricing.

Now I'm stuck with this huge bill.

[hellfire]

As far as Tyler goes, lets be clear, I haven't had much work done by him, but he's always been nice to me, given me super deals on parts, and given me advice on things when I needed it, so I consider him a friend and have nothing but good things to say about him or Carina, or Decker in the past when he worked there. But, I will say that I would never take my car to a shop that I thought might double or triple my bill without my knowledge before all is said and done. It's just not good practice, you should never be 'shocked' when you come pick up your car. It sucks to know your car might need extra work, but its best to know beforehand. I mean what if someone can't afford to pay the whole amount when they thought it was going to be significantly lower? That's not a fun corner to be backed into, and if its your only car you're screwed. Doesn't exactly help the reputation either. I hope we don't hear about any more of these incidents from Killswitch, and if I know Tyler, I'd be willing to bet he fixes that problem immediately.

I think there was a miscommunication here on both sides from what I can see. Yall just need to forget about the he-said-she-said bullshit, and if the work done ='s the amount charged, then pay it and be done. If not, then address that issue.

I agree. And I was not trying to back him into a corner, I thought that our conversations had indicated a higher price. I think I also sent him a half price during the work, but I could be wrong. I am not out to double or triple the bill. The original estimate I now do not have in front of me like earlier, but it had $0 for a lot of items, and 1 hour for many other things, that clearly do not take 1 hour. I only did that so I could get a list of what he wanted done. I didn't try to mislead him with cheaper prices or anything, and he knew this.

Tyler

[maxed1]

I'm pretty sure I have been clear about the purpose of this thread:

Did not receive actual pricing until the work was already finished.

I didn't expect the car to be done because I still hadn't gotten direct pricing.

Now I'm stuck with this huge bill.
That's not an huge bill , if all the work that Tyler mentioned was done then that is a very fair price, i've been in the car business for a long time and i don't know a shop that would have touched it for that price let alone let pay in payment interest free

[PLAY]

You guys have reading troubles or something...

How can I be OK with work being done and I never knew how much it was going to cost?

Call people!

I did not receive a half-way invoice. I got the initial one + the final one.

As a customer I need to be told how much something is going to cost. This is a VERY simple concept. You are told how much something costs and afterwards you decide if you want to buy.

Not the other way around.

[hellfire]

I'm pretty sure I have been clear about the purpose of this thread:

Did not receive actual pricing until the work was already finished.

I didn't expect the car to be done because I still hadn't gotten direct pricing.

Now I'm stuck with this huge bill.

How could you tell me "Hey Tyler, I was just calling to checkup on my car, as it needs to be done by xx, thats my birthday."

Then I tell you ok, it will be done, I'm doing EGR and AC right now, and will finish everything else up by that time.

Then when XX day comes, and its done, you not expect it?

You asked for it to be done that day, I told you it would be done, and thats it. It was done.

Also, how come you NEVER asked for any updates during the work performed, but only complained after? I was keeping in contact about the work that was being done, and even gave you hour times. I just hadn't updated the invoice yet.

You told me you were expecting the price to be 600ish. HOW COULD THAT POSSIBLY BE?!?!? That is my question. I told you straight up this was not the correct pricing, that it would be more. Then there were $0 portions. $0 DOLLARS!!! Did you not expect those to have values at the end? You thought that I was giving you a full body harness, etc for free?

Tyler

[Cameron.]

You guys have reading troubles or something...

How can I be OK with work being done and I never knew how much it was going to cost?

Call people!

I did not receive a half-way invoice. I got the initial one + the final one.

As a customer I need to be told how much something is going to cost. This is a VERY simple concept. You are told how much something costs and afterwards you decide if you want to buy.

Not the other way around.

this is typically how it works.....

[PLAY]

That's not an huge bill , if all the work that Tyler mentioned was done then that is a very fair price, i've been in the car business for a long time and i don't know a shop that would have touched it for that price let alone let pay in payment interest free

All of the work in the original invoice wasn't done because I told Tyler not to do it.

I don't care if the bill was $5, you still need to tell the customer how much its going to cost beforehand!

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

caps

[hellfire]

You guys have reading troubles or something...

How can I be OK with work being done and I never knew how much it was going to cost?

Call people!

I did not receive a half-way invoice. I got the initial one + the final one.

As a customer I need to be told how much something is going to cost. This is a VERY simple concept. You are told how much something costs and afterwards you decide if you want to buy.

Not the other way around.

You didn't ever say you needed to stay at a specific price. You told me specific things to do, and to fix. I did those things. You were charged for it.

I also "looked" as you stated, over the engine. I told you I found things, like the leaking valve cover. The IACV hose MISSING, various vacuum leaks, etc. I asked if you wanted those fixed, and you said yes.

You were not waiting on prices like you are trying to say. Its not like you asked for a price, then I went and did the work anyways, and am trying to charge you. You told me to do the work discussed.

Tyler

[PLAY]

this is typically how it works.....


except for the fact that the initial invoice had incorrect pricing.

Inaccurate pricing.

Wrongoooo.

That estimate had no REAL pricing on it.

I didn't get the pricing until everything was already done.

How would you feel if you went to a salon and you didn't see the prices, got your haircut and then told you that the cost was going to be $300?

[hellfire]

except for the fact that the initial invoice had incorrect pricing.

Inaccurate pricing.

Wrongoooo.

That estimate had no REAL pricing on it.

I didn't get the pricing until everything was already done.

How would you feel if you went to a salon and you didn't see the prices, got your haircut and then told you that the cost was going to be $300?

In the salon case, you should then look at the sign, or ask about the pricing before you got the haircut. Not wait until its done, and then ask.

You know my pricing. It has not changed. Its $80 per hour.

I do not know exactly how long it takes to pull out an AC system, I'm sorry, I've never specifically done that to a perfectly good running car. I do not even know how to estimate that. Thats why its an hourly rate.

Tyler

[PLAY]

You didn't ever say you needed to stay at a specific price. You told me specific things to do, and to fix. I did those things. You were charged for it.

I also "looked" as you stated, over the engine. I told you I found things, like the leaking valve cover. The IACV hose MISSING, various vacuum leaks, etc. I asked if you wanted those fixed, and you said yes.

You were not waiting on prices like you are trying to say. Its not like you asked for a price, then I went and did the work anyways, and am trying to charge you. You told me to do the work discussed.

Tyler

You have to give the prices to the customer beforehand.

My grandfather owns a shop in Illinois and when I was there before he would do anything to a customers car, he would tell them how much it was going to cost.

You have to give the customer a price. Its very simple.

"Brent the harness is going to cost_________: labor will be _______. Are you ok with that?"

^^^^^^

That is how a business is run.

Yes, I did tell you that I needed those things done, but I need pricing. Its elementary to get the prices BEFORE work is done.

[~The_Duke~]

Making a harness, removing an ECU, or anything of that sort, you arent going to be able to give an exact amount of time on that kind of stuff.

I know that it takes me between 4-6 hours to do a full brake job on a car. Sometimes it takes me 3 hours, sometimes it takes me 5 hours.

With a 20 year old wiring harness you are going to run into snags and things you have to spend a lil more time on depending the individual car.

Therefore you wont actually know much you spend\parts used building the harness and time spent installing the harness until you are actually done, with car running, and everything cleaned up and ready to be given back.

[Casey]

Typical issue.

customer thinks he was overcharged.

its difficult for a shop to quote a customer up front exactly what the charges are going to be. ask any repair shop. Typically repair shops charge per hour, of course, but they dont start the clock while working. something like a clutch job is X hours, something like a motorswap is XX hours. you get the point. and you charge like that.

brent, buy a honda. and learn to mod your 240 on the side. seriously.

tyler, it might be in your best interest to begin quoting customers hourly rates per job. so you can give a customer a more acurate quote prior to doing any work.

alot of other shops, if they quote a customer xxx dollars and it turns out it should have cost 200 or so more, the shop eats it.

but brent you didnt get a set in stone quote. and you didnt ask for one. and you lead tyler on to seem like money wasnt an issue?

i mean im not sure exactly just going by what im reading.

brent, how do you not know how to cover your ass by now? if you wanted to pay 500 for some stuff to get done to your car then you should have told tyler you had 500 dollars lol. or whatever you wanted to pay.


- figure out what you want / need done
- figure out how much its going to cost
- figure out how to pay for it
- figure out when it can be done

[PLAY]

In the salon case, you should then look at the sign, or ask about the pricing before you got the haircut. Not wait until its done, and then ask.

You know my pricing. It has not changed. Its $80 per hour.

I do not know exactly how long it takes to pull out an AC system, I'm sorry, I've never specifically done that to a perfectly good running car. I do not even know how to estimate that. Thats why its an hourly rate.

Tyler

But say the sign at the salon said $20 for a haircut but there was a disclaimer that stated:

"This is not the actual price of haircut, shampoo, etc."

Even knowing you're labor rate, there still was no information regarding the price of the parts that were put on the car.

[m_cloud]

well. i may as well chime in. here's my situation. i went to install day to install a new clutch and shit. i figured while i was there i would buy a tranny because he had some for sale and my tranny was all messed up. so, $125 for a tranny. whatever, i bought it. go to install the thing and i cant do it by myself (my brother and his girlfriend were there earlier, but had to leave for personal reasons, and my other friend who was supposed to show didnt.) so i asked tyler for some help... he says he would have to charge me... fine, whatever. $75 to put the tranny back. (i did the clutch flywheel blah blah) all buttoned up. test it out. tranny grinds... tyler says, lets grab another. so, he did. same deal, puts the tranny in (with help from me and jj alfano. thanks again) this one doesnt grind but has trouble going into gear. turns out i have a bad slave cylinder. okay, no biggie... i leave the car there and he orders a slave cylinder. quotes me a price of 15 for slave, ends up being 35... not a big deal. puts it on, says its fine... i come to pick it up. he had mentioned something about a small extra charge for putting the tranny in a second time (the time mentioned above...due to bad slave not tranny) i figured this would be a small charge, no biggie again. i got there and it was go time... car ran, so i was happy. we sit down to discuss the bill. the last time i was there i signed a piece of paper that said i owed him a specific amount. that is what i brought. the bill however was much different. i was charged a "discounted" amount of $175 for tranny removal, on top of the $75 i had already paid for the first time. i was confused and a little upset actually. the whole point of me coming to install day was to avoid these charges and do it myself. i had no problem with paying $75 for the help... worth it, because he was helpful. i just feel kind of blind sided by that extra charge. and now me being between jobs at the moment, has to come up with another $187.60 to pay him... im trying to sell parts soon and stuff like that. but this is a blow to my wallet. i have real bills to pay... like a mortgage, a car payment, insurance... this 240 is a daily shitbox... i wasnt planning on dropping that kind of cash on a problem i could have waited on.. so now, my total bill ended up being $472.60...

im a grown up... i deal with shit. i have every intention on paying the man, and am trying to come up with extra cash to do so. but these are tough times yall and its hard to deal with extra expenses. i have no problem with tyler. he does good work and all, but this just seemed shady at the last minute there. am i just totally looking at this the wrong way or what?

~mike


PS- this isn't a personal attack at all on my part, i was just chiming in on the misunderstanding of prices aspect. i had signed a paper that said one price, then was presented with something different on arrival. i have already paid $285 of the bill, so i'd prefer not to be lumped in with not paying for shit crowd. i dont have bad things to say about killwitch, tyler, carina or anyone ive met... just the pricing was confusing.

[hellfire]

You have to give the prices to the customer beforehand.

My grandfather owns a shop in Illinois and when I was there before he would do anything to a customers car, he would tell them how much it was going to cost.

You have to give the customer a price. Its very simple.

"Brent the harness is going to cost_________: labor will be _______. Are you ok with that?"

^^^^^^

That is how a business is run.

Yes, I did tell you that I needed those things done, but I need pricing. Its elementary to get the prices BEFORE work is done.

Then why did you never ask for pricing.

I understand, and that is normally how everything is handled. You needed it done asap, and I had already discussed about how many hours this, or that would take. I remember on the phone.

If there was a monetary number, that I needed to stay under, and you needed your car to run, then you should have let me know. So I could then tell you what I could do for that price.

I apologize, yet again for not updating you with a price. But I didn't know how many hours the labor was going to be, honestly. So I had no real way of knowing. Next time I'll just guess, and hope I'm close. I suppose.

And its not like you could have not expected that price, like I said before. You wanted tires, you wanted them mounted. You wanted a thermostat, you wanted it installed, etc. How could you have wanted all those things, yet expect the bill to be $600?

I just don't understand your train of thought.

Tyler

[m_cloud]

but for real, they do good work from what ive seen... and are helpful.

[PLAY]

Typical issue.

customer thinks he was overcharged.

its difficult for a shop to quote a customer up front exactly what the charges are going to be. ask any repair shop. Typically repair shops charge per hour, of course, but they dont start the clock while working. something like a clutch job is X hours, something like a motorswap is XX hours. you get the point. and you charge like that.

brent, buy a honda. and learn to mod your 240 on the side. seriously.

tyler, it might be in your best interest to begin quoting customers hourly rates per job. so you can give a customer a more acurate quote prior to doing any work.

alot of other shops, if they quote a customer xxx dollars and it turns out it should have cost 200 or so more, the shop eats it.

but brent you didnt get a set in stone quote. and you didnt ask for one. and you lead tyler on to seem like money wasnt an issue?

i mean im not sure exactly just going by what im reading.

brent, how do you not know how to cover your ass by now? if you wanted to pay 500 for some stuff to get done to your car then you should have told tyler you had 500 dollars lol. or whatever you wanted to pay.

I wouldn't make it seem like money wasn't an issue. I expect prices because thats how it is supposed to be. "This is how much it is going to cost $____. " That is what I want to hear before work is done.

[Casey]

I wouldn't make it seem like money wasn't an issue. I expect prices because thats how it is supposed to be. "This is how much it is going to cost $____. " That is what I want to hear before work is done.

step 1- figure out wtf is wrong
step 2- figure out how much someone is going to charge you.
step 3- figure out how to pay for it
step 4- have the work done. and figure out when to get the car back.

dont skip step two.

dur

---------- Post added at 10:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 PM ----------


Did you buy the tranny from tyler?

yeah looks like it.

[Casey]

infractions will be given for cluttering this thread.

[m_cloud]

yea i did. and he said if there was an issue with it, he'd pull it and put another one on. and thats what happened just like he said. but we then found out the slave was bad, so he charged me for the second time we put one on. after the fact. i had no way of knowing the slave cylinder was bad... i dunno.

[Banzai]

Brent, Just pay the man and be done with it. You don't have to go to a shop. Maybe this will teach you that.

[hellfire]

well. i may as well chime in. here's my situation. i went to install day to install a new clutch and shit. i figured while i was there i would buy a tranny because he had some for sale and my tranny was all messed up. so, $125 for a tranny. whatever, i bought it. go to install the thing and i cant do it by myself (my brother and his girlfriend were there earlier, but had to leave for personal reasons, and my other friend who was supposed to show didnt.) so i asked tyler for some help... he says he would have to charge me... fine, whatever. $75 to put the tranny back. (i did the clutch flywheel blah blah) all buttoned up. test it out. tranny grinds... tyler says, lets grab another. so, he did. same deal, puts the tranny in (with help from me and jj alfano. thanks again) this one doesnt grind but has trouble going into gear. turns out i have a bad slave cylinder. okay, no biggie... i leave the car there and he orders a slave cylinder. quotes me a price of 15 for slave, ends up being 35... not a big deal. puts it on, says its fine... i come to pick it up. he had mentioned something about a small extra charge for putting the tranny in a second time (the time mentioned above...due to bad slave not tranny) i figured this would be a small charge, no biggie again. i got there and it was go time... car ran, so i was happy. we sit down to discuss the bill. the last time i was there i signed a piece of paper that said i owed him a specific amount. that is what i brought. the bill however was much different. i was charged a "discounted" amount of $175 for tranny removal, on top of the $75 i had already paid for the first time. i was confused and a little upset actually. the whole point of me coming to install day was to avoid these charges and do it myself. i had no problem with paying $75 for the help... worth it, because he was helpful. i just feel kind of blind sided by that extra charge. and now me being between jobs at the moment, has to come up with another $187.60 to pay him... im trying to sell parts soon and stuff like that. but this is a blow to my wallet. i have real bills to pay... like a mortgage, a car payment, insurance... this 240 is a daily shitbox... i wasnt planning on dropping that kind of cash on a problem i could have waited on.. so now, my total bill ended up being $472.60...

im a grown up... i deal with shit. i have every intention on paying the man, and am trying to come up with extra cash to do so. but these are tough times yall and its hard to deal with extra expenses. i have no problem with tyler. he does good work and all, but this just seemed shady at the last minute there. am i just totally looking at this the wrong way or what?

~mike


PS- this isn't a personal attack at all on my part, i was just chiming in on the misunderstanding of prices aspect. i had signed a paper that said one price, then was presented with something different on arrival. i have already paid $285 of the bill, so i'd prefer not to be lumped in with not paying for shit crowd. i dont have bad things to say about killwitch, tyler, carina or anyone ive met... just the pricing was confusing.

Oh geez.

Alright, we can go over yours as well.

I'll just start from the top. To make sure we are on the same page.

I sold you a transmission. For install day. You tried to put it in. You couldn't. Asked me for help. Which was putting the trans in, reinstalling the driveshaft, shifter, slave, etc. I told you that I would do it for only $75, in the install day spirit of helping out. You said no problem.

So I did it, the car wouldn't go into gear at all. At all.

So, I don't keep around bad trannies, only one that Decker had mentioned to me, which I immedietly pulled out of the pile.

I thought it was odd. But I said that I would pull that tranny out free of charge, and install another free of charge. So I did.

SAME ISSUE. Now by that time, I figured something else was wrong, but you didn't mention the shitty pedal feel beforehand. So I tell you something else must be wrong, I'll pickup a slave cylinder, it will be AROUND $15-20. It was $30. My mistake, I was off $10.

Install the Slave, and voila, tranny work with no problems at all. Call you and tell you, and also said that we would have to talk about another charge, because that first tranny was fine too, and that another issue on the car was the problem and cause of my extra labor. You said no problem.

I ALSO installed and wired up a relay for your fans, which were causing problems with your car. That was done as well. Like normal I called and told you a price, you approved, and work was done.

So, you get there. I told you we could work something out. I asked you if it was cool if I charge the normal rate, $250, deduct the already charged rate $75, and you could pay the extra $175 off as you could, so there were NO SUPRISE UPFRONT CHARGES. You didn't have to come up with more cash, and I let you take the car without full payment.

You said that was no problem, I even asked. I remember.

So now, you are saying you were mad? Do you guys just not want to say something or what?

I discounted the one tranny removal to FREE, and charged you full price for the second. Now how was I wronging you?

Tyler

[PLAY]

Then why did you never ask for pricing.

I understand, and that is normally how everything is handled. You needed it done asap, and I had already discussed about how many hours this, or that would take. I remember on the phone.

If there was a monetary number, that I needed to stay under, and you needed your car to run, then you should have let me know. So I could then tell you what I could do for that price.

I apologize, yet again for not updating you with a price. But I didn't know how many hours the labor was going to be, honestly. So I had no real way of knowing. Next time I'll just guess, and hope I'm close. I suppose.

And its not like you could have not expected that price, like I said before. You wanted tires, you wanted them mounted. You wanted a thermostat, you wanted it installed, etc. How could you have wanted all those things, yet expect the bill to be $600?

I just don't understand your train of thought.

Tyler

Thatrs why I told you not to do those things.

The thermostat is sitting in my room. I don't have tires so that comes out to $0.

Im talking about the stuff you DID do, not stuff I wanted prices on.

[m_cloud]

at least he's cool enough to let you drive the car away and have a payment plan... some shops would keep your car and demand it all up front. something to think about...

like i said, im not bashing the shop at all... just wanted to clear up the pricing issue.

[hellfire]

Did you buy the tranny from tyler?

Yes, he did. And if the tranny had been the issue, then there would be no extra charge, and no extra labor or anything.

But the tranny was not the issue, and that tranny has since been used. Without problem.

Tyler

[PLAY]

:redx::redx:
at least he's cool enough to let you drive the car away and have a payment plan... some shops would keep your car and demand it all up front. something to think about...

like i said, im not bashing the shop at all... just wanted to clear up the pricing issue.

Didn't get to drive the car away

[hellfire]

:redx::redx:

Didn't get to drive the car away

Actually, like I said the first time we spoke on the phone, I would have let you take the car home, with just one payment. To help you guys out, and to show I was willing to do what needed to be done in order for both sides to be happy. You and your mom agree'd.

Then your mom dropped off payment AND TOLD US NOT TO LET YOU TAKE THE CAR. Then you called, and we told you we couldn't let you take the car. So take that part up with your mom.


I,ll wait to hear tylers side of the story sound like a few disgruntled kids are trying to make a very well liked and reputable business man look bad in the eyes of other people , tyler has done some large jobs for me and the price was what i thought it would be work was great. Alll i,m saying cars allways cost more than you think be prepared or do the work yourself dont bash him and try to ruin his rep....Thats shitty

I already replied. Look for the long ass post above. Haha.

Also, thanks for the support. It means a lot.

Tyler

[m_cloud]

okay. you dont have to get defensive with me man... im here telling people i would recommend you. i have ONE issue with you i am trying to straighten out. i was confused alright? i felt that i had been wronged because you charged me after the fact. how the fuck would i have known that my slave cylinder was bad? i asked you when the tranny was off if it felt right. it was awful loose. you said, "should be fine" you being a mechanic, i took your word for it. i know you said we could work something out. i had no problem with that. i even said in my previous post that i intended on paying. so whats with this talking to me like im ignorant stuff? i know you did a relay. i paid you for that. thats not even an issue. i just think that if we both thought it was the tranny... and i asked you if the slave felt bad, you say no. then it turns out to be ( and i REMEMBER asking you) then you turn around and charge me for install after the fact. i felt confused, okay? thats all i was saying. i didnt want this to become an issue of me vs you. i was just voicing an opinion. which i guess i should have said something at the time i picked it up... but it didnt really hit me till i was driving home. i thought you were charging to pull the tranny to install the slave, but then i thought about it and you dont have to pull it to do a slave, so then i realized you charged me for the previous time. then i was upset. mkay? and the pedal still feels weak, so how would i know the difference?

~mike

[hellfire]

okay. you dont have to get defensive with me man... im here telling people i would recommend you. i have ONE issue with you i am trying to straighten out. i was confused alright? i felt that i had been wronged because you charged me after the fact. how the fuck would i have known that my slave cylinder was bad? i asked you when the tranny was off if it felt right. it was awful loose. you said, "should be fine" you being a mechanic, i took your word for it. i know you said we could work something out. i had no problem with that. i even said in my previous post that i intended on paying. so whats with this talking to me like im ignorant stuff? i know you did a relay. i paid you for that. thats not even an issue. i just think that if we both thought it was the tranny... and i asked you if the slave felt bad, you say no. then it turns out to be ( and i REMEMBER asking you) then you turn around and charge me for install after the fact. i felt confused, okay? thats all i was saying. i didnt want this to become an issue of me vs you. i was just voicing an opinion. which i guess i should have said something at the time i picked it up... but it didnt really hit me till i was driving home. i thought you were charging to pull the tranny to install the slave, but then i thought about it and you dont have to pull it to do a slave, so then i realized you charged me for the previous time. then i was upset. mkay? and the pedal still feels weak, so how would i know the difference?

~mike

:cheers:

I'm not being defensive, as in arguing with you or telling you that you are wrong, I just have to backup my business, and reputation.

If there is ANY issue, just let me know. That is all that is needed for us to be able to come to a resolution. But if you don't tell me, I cannot fix it. Ya know?

Tyler

[PLAY]

I,ll wait to hear tylers side of the story sound like a few disgruntled kids are trying to make a very well liked and reputable business man look bad in the eyes of other people , tyler has done some large jobs for me and the price was what i thought it would be work was great. Alll i,m saying cars allways cost more than you think be prepared or do the work yourself dont bash him and try to ruin his rep....Thats shitty

Your lack of reading comprehension is amazing.

As I've typed this numerous times in this thread:

I didn't get the actual pricing for the work before it was done.

I'm not some kid out to ruin Tyler's rep, but that is what happened plain and simple.

Now I'm being billed and wasn't aware of any sort of price estimate because the prices were all wrong, not just the estimated labor on removing the a/c.

[Casey]

Your lack of reading comprehension is amazing.

As I've typed this numerous times in this thread:

I didn't get the actual pricing for the work before it was done.

I'm not some kid out to ruin Tyler's rep, but that is what happened plain and simple.

Now I'm being billed and wasn't aware of any sort of price estimate because the prices were all wrong, not just the estimated labor on removing the a/c.

brent, stop defending yourself from anyone except tyler. the issue is between you, and tyler. so talk about it. addressing insults is making you look like an attention whore.

[m_cloud]

understood.... and i'll still say it. i have no problem with you personally. i would still recommend you. you actually seem to care about your customers and do good work. but i would hope you could see how i would be upset about this. i just felt taken advantage of.

[Casey]

understood.... and i'll still say it. i have no problem with you personally. i would still recommend you. you actually seem to care about your customers and do good work. but i would hope you could see how i would be upset about this. i just felt taken advantage of.

see i dont know exactly what happened with your situation.

but if my slave went out id know it lol.

[hellfire]

I just don't see the need for the thread though, if we both, and your mother, had already talked about everything. And then came up with a solution that we both were happy with.

What else could I have done? I admitted that I could have given you an updated price sheet. But I was trying to get your car done, and some things I cannot estimate, I can only take the end hour amount. If you would have given me a price that you couldn't exceed, we could have done it that way.

Tyler

---------- Post added at 10:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ----------


understood.... and i'll still say it. i have no problem with you personally. i would still recommend you. you actually seem to care about your customers and do good work. but i would hope you could see how i would be upset about this. i just felt taken advantage of.

The point was not to take advantage of you. The point was that I run a business. While I treat everyone friendly and respectful, I cannot do everything on a "friends" basis. I was nice, offered to finish it up for $75. But 5-6 hours later, and the mistake is not ours, but rather another issue with the car? Then I have be the "business man" and charge you for the labor issued. Which I didn't even fully do.

If you felt taken advantage of, call me. When you got home, pickup the phone and call. Too late? Call the next day, ask me what we can do, or why there was a charge. Thats all that needs to happen.

Tyler

[m_cloud]

see i dont know exactly what happened with your situation.

but if my slave went out id know it lol.

ive had the car for four years now... the clutch pedal felt the same since the day i got it, so i never even suspected the slave. but i have put a clutch in it before and felt a noticeable improvement... so i thought this was the problem once again. the reason i purchased the tranny was due to fact that first and reverse were no longer engaging properly... figured the synchros were fudged not the slave. but then again... im not a mechanic.

[Casey]

ive had the car for four years now... the clutch pedal felt the same since the day i got it, so i never even suspected the slave. but i have put a clutch in it before and felt a noticeable improvement... so i thought this was the problem once again. the reason i purchased the tranny was due to fact that first and reverse were no longer engaging properly... figured the synchros were fudged not the slave. but then again... im not a mechanic.

i gotcha. i mean i understand you didnt know and everything.

if tyler had sold you a gimp transmission then youd have something to be upset about. but it was your slave not the transmission...

[PLAY]

Because of not telling me the pricing, it generated a situation and put me in a hole.

If I had it my way, I would pay what was on the estimate +$200 over since you said you have a $200 leeway with estimates, which would make it $780-ish not $1200.

[hellfire]

^^ Yes. I would fully understand the issue if the trans had been the issue. That is why I offered to do the labor free since that is what we thought the issue was. But since the tranny was not the issue. then I had to charge the labor that I had previously said would be free. I think that is the problem.

Which I know sucks for him, but in the end, it would have saved him cash and frustration by just letting us do it from the beggining. As we could have diagnosed the issue with the old trans still on, and then figured out what needed to be done.

But like I said, he only was charged once for the tranny install, not twice, so even then I cut him a break.

People, JUST CALL ME. If there is an issue. Shit, I'm putting that in my sig.

Tyler

---------- Post added at 10:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM ----------


Because of not telling me the pricing, it generated a situation and put me in a hole.

If I had it my way, I would pay what was on the estimate +$200 over since you said you have a $200 leeway with estimates, which would make it $780-ish not $1200.

Brent, so you are telling me you thought I was giving you a harness, and all those other parts, for free? You honestly thought the $0 meant that I was not charging you?

Of course not, so then just adding $200 on top is stupid. You knew there were going to be prices filled in there.

And its not that I "said" I had a $200 range. Read the estimate.

Tyler

[m_cloud]

If you felt taken advantage of, call me. When you got home, pickup the phone and call. Too late? Call the next day, ask me what we can do, or why there was a charge. Thats all that needs to happen.

Tyler

i know. i wanted to have some money in hand beofre i called again. i was going to voice my opinion to you in person when i paid you. but you have to keep your "business" stance just like i have to keep my "customer" stance. i plan on having work done again by you i hoped and i didnt want to make a huge issue out of it. like i said im an adult, im not gonna not pay you. and i would have called you, but i didnt want it to seem like i was trying to get out of paying. i understand you are a business. and on top of that you are a respected business with a large following... im not mad at you. i guess if you truly believe the charges are just, thats the way it is. and ive accepted that. as long as you are cool with me getting the money to you when i can, then we are good man.

im selling some stuff around the garage on here soon to get some cash... may even have a yard sale. i like just lost my job, so bear with me.

im sorry to have brought this crap up on a forum. kinda lame, but i saw the thread and thought id voice my opinion early... sorry man. we cool? :wavey:

~mike

[hellfire]

i know. i wanted to have some money in hand beofre i called again. i was going to voice my opinion to you in person when i paid you. but you have to keep your "business" stance just like i have to keep my "customer" stance. i plan on having work done again by you i hoped and i didnt want to make a huge issue out of it. like i said im an adult, im not gonna not pay you. and i would have called you, but i didnt want it to seem like i was trying to get out of paying. i understand you are a business. and on top of that you are a respected business with a large following... im not mad at you. i guess if you truly believe the charges are just, thats the way it is. and ive accepted that. as long as you are cool with me getting the money to you when i can, then we are good man.

im selling some stuff around the garage on here soon to get some cash... may even have a yard sale. i like just lost my job, so bear with me.

im sorry to have brought this crap up on a forum. kinda lame, but i saw the thread and thought id voice my opinion early... sorry man. we cool? :wavey:

~mike

I have no issue with you. When you came down I told you to pay when you could. I figured you would call when you could pay, I'm not going to badger you and make you feel bad, when I told you to take your time.

Cheers!

Tyler

[PLAY]

No I didn't think the harness was free, but that was all I had to go on.

No clear pricing for anything until the bill was given to me.

How was I supposed to know how much it was going to cost?

You didn't tell me until after you had already done it.

[m_cloud]

thanks man... again sorry about the drama crap.. you'll be hearing from me!

cheers as well!

~mike

and im gonna say it one more time. Killswitch does good work folks. My car doesnt die everyday now partly thanks to them and i have use of all my gears. please don't read this and be discouraged about using them for their services... just be up front with them from the start and all is well. im done.

[hellfire]

No I didn't think the harness was free, but that was all I had to go on.

No clear pricing for anything until the bill was given to me.

How was I supposed to know how much it was going to cost?

You didn't tell me until after you had already done it.

I don't know what else to say. I've said it over and over. I apologize. I told you I should have communicated better. But I also didn't see any concern from you about the pricing, so I didn't think there was an issue. I also did talk to you about little things here and there, I just don't remember exactly, so I don't want to quote them.

I also already talked to you, and your mother about the situation. We came to an agreement, and I thought that was it.

But apparently, there is something going on via punishment from your mom or something that screwed up what we had talked about. There is nothing I can do about that. So.. I donno.

Tyler

[PLAY]

I'm not being punished at all.

Its just that the more I think about it, it really is unfair to me as a customer. I don't really start conflicts, but in this case I felt wronged and I had to bring it up.

[hellfire]

If you felt wronged, why did you not just call me, and we could work the situation out? Instead of posting on here, where you know there is going to be 10 pages of drama.

Tyler

[PLAY]

I'm not going to lie, but it is really hard for me to cause conflict in person. You'll never see me in person yelling at a store clerk because they won't refund me money or give me store credit. I just can't do it.

I tried to explain it on the phone right after you sent me the invoice, but I guess it didn't come out right or something. On here I can pretty much type exactly how I feel.

I'm a far better writer then I am at actual conversation so my point is concise and undiluted when I type. When I speak, I'm always like, "How can I make this sound nice?" in my head.

Typing is just clearer to me.

[hellfire]

Then you could have just sent me a PM, we could have discussed it. And a solution could have came about.

Instead of posting a thread. Don't you think that we both could have benifited more from that, and both came out happier in the end?

Tyler

[PLAY]

I'm sure Casey won't have a problem deleting the thread, I just thought this would get results better than a PM.

Works on zilvia.

[hellfire]

But all you had to do was PM me. If you want to solve an issue, thats all you have to do. From now on, so you know, if you have ANY problem. You can PM me. Its fine. :)

Tyler

[PLAY]

Ok, for future reference I will PM you.

[MOOREOFSTEPHEN]

Stop being a bunch of ladies...

This should of been PM's before a thread I give you that. Now if the PM's didn't get you anywhere and was a waste of time... then take it to the next level and post it up for us to see.

No need to cut Tyler's throat so fast. Hard to please everyone!!!

[babowc]

Brent, if you don't want anymore persons commenting on the thread, you can close it yourself.
Just lettin ya know.

glad you guys came to some sort of resolution.

[BurnzSRcoupin]

damn zorak are you fuckin 12 or something? To get your engine perfect is gonna cost you more than a new steering wheel.. everything ive had tyler do was done correctly and i was updated accordingly.