top mount > front mount > sidemount > v-mount

[v-empire]

somebody convinced me today that my V-mount on my s13 was designed for drifters to protect their intercoolers.. he liked the idea.:bump: and i was convinced. he also told me its a good thing its not a daily driver coz it will overheat in traffic. :screwy:

[JDM Steve]

who was that?

ive ran a fmic on my coupe with sr20 then switched to side mount with a ka-t and running a fmic on my sileighty with a rb25

[v-empire]

some guy who called me today asking for some advice, he has seen my car before...lol.

[JDM Steve]

hrmm hopefully things were straightend out haha, yea... straight...

[v-empire]

of course, i just agreed with him.

[v-empire]

rear mount will be the way to go.

[JDM Steve]

rear turbos are pretty cool but alot of pipe and weight

[v-empire]

in the end of the day, i think efficiency and simplicity and of course the overall balance of the car is most important.

my v mount is unneccessary for my category, but i just had to have it for some stupid reason....it might be my down fall....lol. but i ll work with it.

[JDM Steve]

most def.

[Lone_Wolf]

v mount is not for protecting the intercooler its so air doesent have to go thru the intercooler then the radiator. plus there is less piping with v mount so you get better response.

[v-empire]

not what that guy said....:(

[Lone_Wolf]

I dont know about the driving in traffic but i DO know that it is not to protect your intercooler. that is just dumb.

[Lone_Wolf]

V mount > Front mount > side mount > top mount <-- heat soak

[Lone_Wolf]

its about airflow not about protection. heres a ghetto ass pic i found.

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3962/vmount5iw.jpg

see how both of them get the same air? its done for efficiency and response

[Cash]

Yes, stopsnitchin is right. V-mount allows more air to get to the radiator. Big front mounts block air to the radiator. I don't think drifters are worried about keeping their front mounts pretty.

[v-empire]

v mount creates a parachute in front of your car? and the intercooler is smaller.

[v-empire]

is this a great DIY? i think so. just so my car looks like a sleeper...no front mount showing.....woot woot. maybe the SLEEPER thing makes it worthwhile.

[JDM Steve]

the thing with a big front mount is u have a good rad. like a koyo and a good solid e-fan with a nismo thermo. things will stay mighty cool.

[hellfire]

Yep. The whole reason for V Mount is better boost response, and better cooling.

Tyler

[Cash]

Yea, I've got a koyo, adjustable thermo (not nismo b/c i know where it's safe to buy cheaper parts), and dual FAL's. Still, with a big fmic, those fans are just stirring up hot air that's trapped in your engine bay. They're effective to an extent, but a v-mount would be much more effective. I've thought about trying to do come up with some sort of ducting to where i can get cooler air into my engine bay and hitting my radiator. I'm also thinking about getting a cooling panel, but I need to do more research on them first.

[v-empire]

i think i m going rear mount radiator....seems too hard for v mount.


more DIY compatible

[Lone_Wolf]

cooling panel would just get more air pushed across your radiator, not necessarily get hot air out of your engine bay. the only thing I can think of to fix that is a vented hood.

[Cash]

yea, i'm not worried as much about getting the hot air out as i am about getting cool air in. Obviously a cooling panel can't get hot air out, but cool air coming in lowers the temperature of the air in your engine bay. That's mainly what I'm trying to do, lower the overall temperature of air in my engine bay. Then the fans will be pushing cooler air into my radiator.

[JDM Steve]

a venter hood would work well. in my case i couldnt do a v-mount for the fact of my chargespeed bumper and how it is bolted down to the front core as u can see in my sig pic. vented silvia hood work well :)

[Lone_Wolf]

co2 spray or spray water on your intercooler or radiator. i saw this article in sport compact car where they hooked one (water spray) up to the washer fluid res on their flat black disco potato powered s13 and the total cost was under 5 buxxxx. do it!

[v-empire]

alot of factory turbo cars have them. my old car did.

[JDM Steve]

co2 spray or spray water on your intercooler or radiator. i saw this article in sport compact car where they hooked one (water spray) up to the washer fluid res on their flat black disco potato powered s13 and the total cost was under 5 buxxxx. do it!


im pretty sure thats how the sti wrx is setup

[Lone_Wolf]

yea yea evos and stis as well im just sayin you can lower temps for only a couple bux

haha you beat me to it. :p

[v-empire]

or you can do rear mount!

[Lone_Wolf]

or YOU can do rear mount. haha j/k

[v-empire]

ok...done!

[Lone_Wolf]

haha good luck!! hook it up with a "how to" DIY thread

[JDM Steve]

while ur at it u might as well mount it on top of the rear of car v-mount style and have downforce

[Cash]

co2 spray or spray water on your intercooler or radiator. i saw this article in sport compact car where they hooked one (water spray) up to the washer fluid res on their flat black disco potato powered s13 and the total cost was under 5 buxxxx. do it!

That's awesome. I don't ever use my windshield washer fluid. I'm gonna reroute it to go over across the top of my radiator and add a few T's in the line. haha, manual radiator cooling.

Also, the vented hood is a good idea, but I don't want my car to look that hardcore right now. Maybe once I graduate next year and get a daily driver I'll start making my 240 look a little bit more aggressive.

[Lone_Wolf]

thats exactly what they did. I've got the issue somewhere in one of these boxes, but it seems like you've already got the idea. Good luck. Im thinkin of puttin it under the DIY if you dont.

[v-empire]

i ll get viperbite to do all my tig welding. he is making me a diffuser as well.
i ll get him to do my radiator and intercooler also.

pics of v mounts please.....

[Cash]

http://www.bee.net/a2low240/gauges/david1.jpg
http://www.kameson.com/RX-7/image/01611004.jpg

That's just what I got from a quick google search. Also, if I'm not mistaken, I think the signal auto drift twins s13's had v-mount setups. Maybe try to search for some picture of them.

[flip]

im pretty sure thats how the sti wrx is setup

Yep, it sure is. I can vouch that spraying your intercooler can make a HUGE difference in HP numbers. I had the STi dyno'd and watching the numbers climed by the 10's with the more they sprayed the intercooler. After 3 dynos, from first to last I gained around 25hp and 30tq from spraying... They didn't have a fan on top of the car tho (top mount) so my numbers probly would have been higher if i had wind and water on my side ( reminds me of captain planet for some reason ).

I've actually heard of a lot of advantages of simply a larger top mount in the subaru world as opposed to a front mount. People can get some crazy numbers with top mount...

[v-empire]

but someone said top mount sucks.....:toung:

[JDM Steve]

word, thats pretty impressive

[v-empire]

larger is better? why is it important to run intercoolers when i have seen cars without intercoolers, running straigt into the intake manifold?

intercoolers are overated, why is it better?

[flip]

Don't forget that the bigger the FMIC, the more lag you can expect... With a TMIC you get quicker response because there is less piping to pressureize. Its all about what you're looking for in performance.

[hellfire]

You probably gained such large numbers becuase your TMIC was heatsoaked due to no fans being on it. It can heatsoak after one run like that. So basically, it was doing nothing.

Somehow I missed like 3 pages of this convo. I have more to say, just don't have time right now.

Tyler

[Dominic49]

so its solved? rear mount radiator with a bottom mount intercooler?

[Casey]

hm
mk v-empire
im going to make me a diffuser... lol
i need a welder first lol
so it cant exactly be soon haha

and vmount seems like a good setup to run but all in all i think a fairly good vent in the hood will help airflow alot.
i mean try to blow air into the top of a coke bottle... then cut a hole in the bottle and do it lol

more airflow = better overall
i used to build computers and one of mine had 10 fans and i kept the cpu at 87 degrees when ambient tepm was 75... thats 12 degrees of heat lol under idle and it got to 100 under load...
i covered up two of those ten fans and temps rose to 95 idle and 110 under load all Farenheight of course...

but basiclaly the more air you have flowing over radiators, intercoolers, turbo, and even engine... the better.
but you dont NEED tons of airflow if you dont have a huge turbo and fmic or vmic
honestly the more power you gain out of a turbo the more cooling you will need... bigger intercoolers... more airflow. it just needs to be added as you boost performance of your car.
radiator and IC sprayers are a great idea... ESPECIALLY if you track your car. they work best when youre moving tho.
i thought about rigging up something that sprayed a mist of water at above 4k engine rpm. or maybe full throttle. on the IC and Radiator. i might do it when i do my engine build.
all you need is a relay that triggors under a ceritan voltage *so when ure rpm sensor reaches a certian voltage it triggors the relay to spray the water.

i actually wanna know more about vmounts anyone got any install pics?

[flip]

I want a more powerful and faster spray on my subie. Maybe just get a badasser motor?

[Casey]

just add another sprayer on there =D

[Imjosh]

From what I've read and what seems logical for a Vmount to be effective it needs to be properly ducted and vented through there is a guy on the 240sxforums that has his track car setup vmount that is amazing. To me an unvented unducted v mount is basicly a topmount.

[Dominic49]

i thought about rigging up something that sprayed a mist of water at above 4k engine rpm. or maybe full throttle. on the IC and Radiator. i might do it when i do my engine build.
all you need is a relay that triggors under a ceritan voltage *so when ure rpm sensor reaches a certian voltage it triggors the relay to spray the water.

i actually wanna know more about vmounts anyone got any install pics?

you could actually use the shift light output of modern tach/ecus to trigger a relay totrigger the solinoids to spray at a certain rpm...

[Infinite]

or a window switch, or even a progressive nitrous controller, all it does is trigger a ground and times the signal

[Casey]

you could actually use the shift light output of modern tach/ecus to trigger a relay totrigger the solinoids to spray at a certain rpm...

ha thats perfect
hmmm
are there any shift lights where one glows green then another glows red or something.
id want it to spray from probably 6k rpm to 7k rpm
as ill be making my engine stable up to around 6,900
but sure wont be doing it often

[v-empire]

my evo sprayed alki injection at 4.9k rpm every time......boost up scramble biatch.


why go spray when you can go injected?

[Lone_Wolf]

im getting water injection asap but im worried b/c in my wideband instructions it says that the alcohol can throw off the a/f and it wont be accurate. does anyone know anything about that?

[hellfire]

No you will be fine. Everyone runs widebands with Alky or Meth. It won't hurt a thing.

And also is there a reason you are running "Water"? You will acheive better results with Methonal..

Tyler

[Lone_Wolf]

i mean walter/alcohol (washer fluid)

[babowc]

well, i missed everything, but with a V-mount, i know for sure you need the air to escape the bay once it enters.

iirc, with vmount, circulation is supposed to be the key in terms of cooling with fresh air.

its probably same with every type of IC cooling method, but more important for a Vmount.

Top mount.. i dont see what is so superior about that?
dont many STI owners switch to front mount so they can get better cooling/bigger IC? Top mount would drastically limit the size of the intercooler and especially with it being on top of the engine.. i'd imagine it'd be heatsoaked sitting in traffic and the likes.

topmount on a s13 or s14 is just pointless imo.

Vmount would be 'exotic' but again, unnecessary on a street driven car.
I'd assume you'd want fans on both the rad and the ic to get good cooling while just sitting in traffic?

how does your Vmount perform??

[Casey]

fans on the intercooler would probably hinder high speed flow through the IC...
good luck finding fans that can create the CFM that 100mph will create. =D
and a v mount needs to be ducted in order to obtain the best flow through the IC. like stated before you definatly need a good vent in your hood to vent the air from vmount.

[flip]

well, i missed everything, but with a V-mount, i know for sure you need the air to escape the bay once it enters.

iirc, with vmount, circulation is supposed to be the key in terms of cooling with fresh air.

its probably same with every type of IC cooling method, but more important for a Vmount.

Top mount.. i dont see what is so superior about that?
dont many STI owners switch to front mount so they can get better cooling/bigger IC? Top mount would drastically limit the size of the intercooler and especially with it being on top of the engine.. i'd imagine it'd be heatsoaked sitting in traffic and the likes.

topmount on a s13 or s14 is just pointless imo.

Vmount would be 'exotic' but again, unnecessary on a street driven car.
I'd assume you'd want fans on both the rad and the ic to get good cooling while just sitting in traffic?

how does your Vmount perform??

On STi's and WRX's a lot of times it's more effective to go with a larger top mount as apposed to a front mount because there is a lot less IC piping. You get less lag and the top mount is quite effective. Most people that put front mounts on STi's don't really need it and would probly be better off with a large TMIC but are just going for the look.

[Dan@CompetitionClutch]

if you ever decide to part with your vmount... i call dibs! lol. if i could afford it! :)

[babowc]

fans on the intercooler would probably hinder high speed flow through the IC...
good luck finding fans that can create the CFM that 100mph will create. =D
and a v mount needs to be ducted in order to obtain the best flow through the IC. like stated before you definatly need a good vent in your hood to vent the air from vmount.

lol
it'll be the same fuction as a rad and elec. fans.


but is there enough room in a s13 bay to get a good sized tmic?

[Casey]

lol
it'll be the same fuction as a rad and elec. fans.


but is there enough room in a s13 bay to get a good sized tmic?

yes at idle to moderate speed
but at high speed the fans would probably just get in the way of the airflow.
possibly a good trade off depending on your application =D
id consider doing it but the fans would have to have a HUGE CFM

[NcTurnL]

Im actaully thinking about doing a V mount set up once my KA-T project goes underway. Im thinking about getting ( dont know the size yet) a Top mount intercooler and getting some fans to pull while I have a vent on the hood right on top of the V mount so the air gets pulled outward.

Also I want to use some type of metal ( not sure to use aluminum or some type of sheet metal) to duct the radiator and intercooler away from the engine, kind of like a sheild to the complete engine......I wish I could draw to show everyone what I mean, lol.

[Cash]

You don't wanna shield the engine too much. It needs to get some airflow too. You probably already knew that, I'm just having trouble picturing what you're talking about. Draw it on MS Paint! haha

[NcTurnL]

lol
Actually I was thinking about that after I wrote it
I would need another way to duct some sir to the engine bay...hmmm
Side ducts that go into the engine bay then exit at the rear of the hood?

I dont know this is an idea for now, until m project starts up.


lol and I wish I knew how to paint....using MS paint, it would probably look so retarded, that it wouldnt even be funny.

[Cash]

haha, yea i love making pictures on ms paint. They always come out looking like the product of special Ed.

[babowc]

lol^ thats so fucked up!
hahaha!

[Casey]

haha i used to have a wacom tablet. so i could draw up designs on the screen like it was on paper =D
but i soldz it :( lol
needed cash never used it that much

[flip]

haha, yea i love making pictures on ms paint. They always come out looking like the product of special Ed.

Check out paint.net its free and kinda badass! Just found out about it the other day... If you don't have photoshop and need something to get by it will do the trick.

[Cash]

Here's my latest work in progress:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c332/chriscash06/dinosaur21.jpg

I still have some more shading to do. hahaha, it seriously is a good way to relieve stress.

Flip, I went to paint.net and it took me to warrenpaint.net. Is that it??

[Casey]

hahahahahaha omg
haha lmao
>< omg thats so funny
hahahaha
look at it lol

[v-empire]

casey.... you are funnier, if that cracks you up like that.

you need to stop cultivating and then plucking your hair and smokin them.

are you still making my rear diffuser and front splitters? i might need them soon......thanks viperbite, you are the best!
:goodjob:

[Casey]

mmm no lol
not "soon"
and didnt u have a diffuser mocked up at the shop

and that dino is just frekin hillarious

[v-empire]

its done, all it needs is paint. but i will break it like you said, so i will need another one soon.

i can get a tig welder on monaday, so how about next weekend. shoud be done in about 4 hours, dont you think?
cutting and wellding? its easy.


i think i am using some mechanical gauges for the time being, my car race should be done soon....bring a helmet.

[Casey]

u can get a welder yes, but i still need to work on welding more.
ive some before but im not great at it yet. lol
thats why i said i need to make me one first.
and whyd you make one if you think its gonna breka
it probably wont break but isnt going to be as stiff as it needs to be. theres a reason race teams use carbon fiber and other strong materials... cuz it doesnt need to flex at all at high speeds.

[v-empire]

they use carbon fiber because they can...lol. they can use any other materials but besides design, weight is most important. cf is light and durable. and they have the budget.

i made it coz i know it wont break and its as light as aluminum. and i wanted something cleaner in shape for my car.
i made it sometime ago, took probably like 8 working hours and the rest was just drying. and sanding, lol.

i would go aluminum when i wreck the car alittle and its time for a fuel cell.

[Casey]

see
awesome lol
ure not gonna wreck your car anytime soon cuz its still up in the air
=D
btw nice wing
lol expensive >< gahh
haha
does no one make a rear diffuser for 240's ?
aside from custom ones

[v-empire]

yeah, a few companies do and it not that expensive either. i dont like most of their designs and i dont think they are as effetive as my design because chances are its designed for street and looks.

only a few companies do make that are raceable and effective but they are extremely pricey.

i wish someone can prove me wrong so i can justify buying one of the cheaper ones instead of making it.

my car can be done in a day if i really wanted to, but i would like to wait on a few parts that would make me happy about my build. and i am also delaying coz i hate painting, the sooner i get done, the sooner i have to paint. yikes. just probably toch up some spots and throw my decals on it ....lol,

[v-empire]

see
awesome lol
ure not gonna wreck your car anytime soon cuz its still up in the air
=D
btw nice wing
lol expensive >< gahh
haha
does no one make a rear diffuser for 240's ?
aside from custom ones

you like my ricer wing?...lol. wait till october, see if my car is still in one piece. if it is, i think i ll start another build......so i will drive it even harder the next race.

[hellfire]

Holy shit. I finally figured out who the hell you are! It didn't hit me until just now.. Your the one I was talking to about the white hatch in the front of Tora. I was making fun of Joe being short.

Damn I'm dumb.

Tyler

[Casey]

lol @ tyler

and that wing is kinda expensive man... lol

[v-empire]

^ and its still ricer! lol...and i love it.

[v-empire]

Holy shit. I finally figured out who the hell you are! It didn't hit me until just now.. Your the one I was talking to about the white hatch in the front of Tora. I was making fun of Joe being short.

Damn I'm dumb.

Tyler

sorry you think you are dumb, i didnt mean to offend you. you seem like a jolly chap. i ll tell joe you said hi. nice to meet you.

[hellfire]

LoL..

I have my dumb moments.

Yeah tell Joe he needs to get his damn boat out of my Grandfathers dock before he drives it out into the lake and lets it go while your at it. ;)

Tyler

[1800DialKyle]

Did someone say free boat????

[hellfire]

Haha.. As far as my grandfather is concerned.

Tyler

[Casey]

woah free boat?
i say
240atlanta weekend party boat
woooooooo
=D
we cna spraypaint 240atlanta on it =D hehehe

[hellfire]

Haha...

Tyler

[v-empire]

how much do you want for the boat to be out of there. start a lien process on it... i ll come pick it up....lol i will sell it back to him if he is interested..lol i ll tell him.

[hellfire]

Haha.. Yeah just let him know. If not.. I'll have a key made and use it all summer.. Becuase its definetly almost been there a year.

That will make him come get it. :)

Tyler